I feel like this is my much anticipated return (and it is, at least by my lone reader out there
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addisonalbright ). Somehow I don't think there will be much rejoicing in the streets though. Hmmm.But onward we thrust (can you tell I started my writing day off today with a sex scene?).
So for those of you who don't know, I do this crazy thing where I work on a rotation of stories. Right now I'm only rotating back and forth between two, but...I know that's something that might make some of you
So I was kind of stumped on which theme to choose, because I could snatch one from either WiP, but I decided to go with one that I'm actually very anxious to hear your opinion on.
How do you feel about the political in m/m romance? How much can an author reveal through their characters? How much should they say? Or not? Do you prefer your men to live their daily lives without thought to the bigger issues in the world? Want them to focus on what really matters--teh buttsex? (Ha, I kid. I think.) Or does it frustrate you that characters never look beyond that?
Now, before you get to thinkin' I'm referring to political theater that is EVERYWHERE right now in the US, sure that could be part of it. But I'm also referring to basically...everything that concerns--or doesn't--society. You might think, "hey, that's not really what I'd call political..." Lemme tell you, though, that after four years in DC...it's ALL political. Everything.
So how much of a message or a point do you think an author can get away with making about world issues? Or does the idea really turn your crank? Have you read any m/m books where think the author really handled the issue well? Any books where it made you want to throw it against the wall?
One book that comes to mind for me is Clear Cut by Alexa Snow. Logger vs. Environmentalist. You have natural deep conflict right there. And I think it's obvious what the message or theme of that book is, but Snow does a really crack job--IMO--of having the characters arguing two sides. Getting each other to take a little turn on the other side of the fence for a moment. I really enjoyed that story.
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Simply having an author's political viewpoint shoved down one's throat can be hard to take, and can turn the reader away from an otherwise good story, particularly if the reader doesn't share the author's opinion. Political issues don't remain 'issues' for long unless there is a fairly even split of folks on either side of it, each with strong opinions on the topic, so it doesn't seem like it would be a good idea to alienate potentially half of your readers just because you want to make a radical political statement.
Edited at 2008-10-02 03:25 pm (UTC)
I think that's a very astute statement. And I'm going to guess that probably the most "effective" (I'm not sure if that's the right word to use) romances that also deal with political issues or current events or something like that are ones where you have two characters arguing a different side of the issue. This allows the author to remain neutral, but still raises the issue. And allow the reader their own interpretation.
It also--especially in the case where it relates to the professions/jobs of the two main characters--can provide for deep conflict. And conflict is good. goOD (ever seen Bruce Almighty where Jim Carey says "good" kinda funny?)
Thanks for reading, Addison! I always appreciate your viewpoint. *g*
Anyways...things I hate in gay romance...
1)The Anti-Gay Mob. *Please* find another villain for your books. Everybody is NOT out to kill a twink. Srsly.
2)Gay For You. If it's going to be a politician, at least let him have sucked off one other guy in his life. It annoys the fuck out of me when two characters are straight except for the one guy they'll take it up the ass for.
3) No priests. That squicks me out every time. Ewwww.
4) No proselytizing. I'm going to hell and I'm looking forward to it. I like being an independent, and I'm not going to suddenly become a Republican because your character is. Although a gay Republican...*shudders*. Lonely world for that dude.
Similarly, I can't be bothered to recycle. Oh, and I smoke and write on dead trees. The chances you will write anything that will move me to the point of changing any of that are nil, so save me the bother, or write a warning in the blurb so I don't waste my money.
I don't mind characters living with real issues...I just don't want them to monologue their stance to me.
It doesn't bother me if we learn that a particular character does or doesn't recycle, or does or doesn't smoke, etc., that's part of giving a character some depth. But I agree that it shouldn't be stretched to sermonizing.
3) No priests. That squicks me out every time.
On this, I agree. As a reader, I prefer not read about ministers/clerics/priests, etc.
Thanks for your insights!
But personally it doesn't turn me away if a character is far-right, even religious, if the author does a good job of making me understand *why* the character is this way and the issue is handled fairly and intriguingly.
Oh, and you definitely have more than one reader. :)
Seriously though, I appreciate you chiming in here. I'm sure you're right in that by hitting upon politics or religion you run the risk of alienating readers. I guess the trick must be in doing it subtly enough, as just part of who that character is--so you can understand the "why"--that the readers don't feel like you are preaching to them.
Well, at least if I ever finish this WiP, I can always point readers in the direction of my "lighter" stuff if a serious Dakota is not something they like. :)
And an author's good writing (like yours!) would weave it in with the plot, rather than dump blocks of diatribe on us as readers.
But I guess I'd always prefer it to be secondary to the relationship. The political opinions would have made him the man he is - but then I like the man to make his own story for me!
I can't think of any examples, apart from stories that were set historically, where the social customs reflected the time and therefore the characters' behaviour. A certain amount of gentle sermonising often seems to happen then, to set the context properly, and because it's being written in hindsight, from our - presumably - more enlightened times.
I think you run the risk of your characters being 2-D if they exist without any opinions or affectation about the world outside. I like the idea of a character caring deeply about something important to them
I have to admit, I find this heartening to read. As a reader, sometimes I wonder what characters think/feel about things going on around them. And it all leads back to characterization. But then I wonder if maybe that's just a personal preference. World issues have always been a big part of my life, so I tend to look at that.
I also think you hit on something very, very important: But I guess I'd always prefer it to be secondary to the relationship.
Because if you're writing a romance, it should be a romance first and foremost.
Yes, very important.
As you can probably guess, I use these discussions of theme to discuss themes from my own work, though I do try and keep it general enough so we can expand the discussion if needed.
Right now one of the WiPs I'm working on involves two guys who were lovers in college, held the same ideals and worked for the same causes and made the same plans, but after graduation one became an international aid worker and spent years in war torn countries and the other went to work for the state department. It's first and definitely the story of rebuilding their relationship, but it will be interesting to see how the political elements go over (if I finish and find a publisher, that is!).
I must admit I have been described as a 'stage' writer i.e. my guys are (in)famous for building their tension and romance over nothing but a cup of coffee in a single room LMAO
But maybe there's only so many times you can play that script...
Your WIP sounds fascinating - challenging too, both for you and the reader, which is how it should be.
Good luck, keep us posted!
^__^
Hey, I do what I can. *g*
And you know, if my SuperMentor Mr. Lanyon were to drop by, I'm sure he'd say something along the lines of: the plot doesn't matter in and of itself--since there are no new story lines--it's what the individual author does with a plot.
I think it's great fun to read a story that has a "tried and true" storyline, but the author manages to bring something fresh and unique in their own voice. :)
I agree with what was said above about not turning a story into a loose framework whose sole purpose is to contain a political jeremiad. Boring, ick, I'll never read that author again even if I agree with them.
Want them to focus on what really matters--teh buttsex?
[sigh]
If the whole focus of the story is fucking and nothing but fucking, and especially if the story's more than like a thousand or maybe two thousand words, I'll pass. I find it depressing that the default assumption in our genre seems to be that more sex is always better, and that anything that crowds out the sex is bad. :/
I'm perfectly fine with there being pure porn around for the people who like it -- nothing wrong with that. But I'm bothered when the majority of the community dialogue assumes that any one flavor is so obviously the best and that all the best ice cream is that one flavor. I might well get the same flavor most of the time, but it's probably not the same flavor you get most of the time, and I think it benefits us all to have a healthy variety constantly available. [Note that this isn't aimed at you -- if you were the only one making this comment, it wouldn't bother me.]
Back to politics, do you read Dear Author? They had a post recently about politics in SF romances; the comments pointed up an interesting divide in the understanding of just what "politics in a story" means.
Angie
I do read DA on occasion, but I think I missed that post because I would have found it very interesting.
That's cool, but I'll bet one of the reasons you thought it'd be sorta funny was because you've seen that same sentiment expressed over and over, and often it doesn't come across as someone just kidding. I'm guessing here, but yeah, this is one of my Issues. [wry smile]
I used "Clear Cut" by Alexa Snow as an example for the political side of things, but it actually is a perfect example of the proportion of sex scenes I enjoy in a story: a full length novel and there are only a couple short intimate scenes.
Sounds perfect -- I'll have to look it up. :)
I do read DA on occasion, but I think I missed that post because I would have found it very interesting.
It wasn't too long ago, hang on and I'll find it....
Here it is: Thoughts on Futuristics Poll
I love books with different themes such as espionage, the environment (e.g. Ally Blue wrote The Happy Onion recently where the 2 protags were on opposite sides of the environmental fence - one was a tree hugger and the other one was a corporate climber and I think it worked rather well. I also read Diplomcy by Zahra Owens which was very political and had a lot of intrigue. However, IMO these different layers can only be explored successfully if the book is novel length. Just my two cents.
That's very interesting. Hmmm. I'll keep that in mind. I have no idea how long this WiP will end up being. I outline, but...I never really follow it, so it's hard to predict.
Thanks for your input, Wave!
I'll admit it doesn't hurt if they think like me...